“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” (Hebrews 11:6)
For quite some time, I’ve wanted to deal with the statements that Andy Stanley made over a year ago during one of his “talks”.
Although he has made other videos since this one to explain his controversial statements (also on YouTube), he has not put out the fire he started. Instead he has only succeeded in bringing his ministry and his beliefs into serious question.
To understand what he said, please, check out the following video; making special note of the 4:00 to 8:00 minute section. It is this area that I am specifically focusing on in this post.
The Bible Told Me So
In case you listened to all of his talk, let me just say that there are many things about his “timeline” discussion that I seriously disagree with. But we will not deal with that section at this time.
Instead, I wish to focus on the simple truth of how we come to Christ. And how we believe by faith.
For one thing, the word of God is absolutely necessary in order to have faith.
True faith in Christ comes from what the Bible tells us. Which is the ONLY way we know for sure what is true; all else is secondary.
“That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth…” (Proverbs 22:21)
Persuasive arguments may certainly lead us to read the Bible for ourselves. That is good.
But is there anything about Jesus Christ, that I can know for sure, which is not written in the word of God? Do I really need to know what the civic records of Bethlehem say? Or of Nazareth? Or of Jerusalem?
What detail is someone going to reveal about Jesus Christ that will lead me to trust Him as my God and Savior which doesn’t come from the Bible? And why would anyone trust any source outside of the Bible for making such an eternal decision?
By the Scriptures Alone
The simple fact is that one cannot truly know who Jesus Christ is apart from scripture. All else is the stuff of cults and false religions. The stuff that is often called, “sacred tradition”.
And it is this same “sacred tradition” or “the tradition of the Fathers” that has caused so much trouble for Catholicism and Judaism and Islam. Where other sources of “truth” have been given equal or superior authority to the scriptures.
Andy wants to talk about the Resurrection instead. He figures this is what will get the discussion started. What will get his foot in the door.
He figures that, by bypassing the Bible, he can deal with people on some other basis. He reasons that he can get the Bible out of the way since so many people reject it for its preposterous statements. Statements he believes are indefensible.
These ideas alone place Andy in a seriously dangerous place. What does he really believe? What is the real origin of his own faith?
How does anyone with the Spirit of God living within him consider the Bible indefensible? And how could any teacher of Christians make such an unbelievably doubt-creating statement?
Is his faith in Christ? The Christ of the scriptures? Or in some other Christ? And how do you divorce the Lord from His word? How do you doubt God’s accuracy when he has magnified His word “above all his name“? (Psalm 138:2)
So then, where does he think the Resurrection account truly comes from?
Resurrection is a crazy idea to believe if it is on any other basis than that of scripture.
Since people have trouble believing far less important things, why would they believe in the Resurrection of Christ? Why should they believe the accounts of someone rising from the dead because some record-keeper in the Roman government wrote about it 2,000 years ago? Or because it is found in writings of other people from that time?
I don’t think so. Most people will find a reason to debunk the whole story based on the general unreliability of ancient records. And because the modern intellectual and scientific cultures reject it.
But Andy thinks he can sacrifice biblical inerrancy in order to reach them!
However, intellectual assent or approval is not faith.
Getting the culture to accept the words of God as true is a faith issue; it is not an issue dependent upon the cleverness of a speaker, or the intellectual prowess or the warmth or the hipness of a preacher.
Because faith requires believing what the scriptures say. What the specific words of God say. Not the words of Andy Stanley or anyone else.
How Faith is Created in Us
It all comes down to what you and I do with what God has written. How we keep the words which the Lord has entrusted to us.
Because we are born again by the word of God. That is where the power is. That is what God uses to change us. That is what he uses to make us new creatures. Along with His blood and His Spirit.
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.” (I Peter 1:23)
“But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” (I Corinthians 15:1)
The Words of the Gospel
There is no gospel apart from the specific words of God.
Nor is there any salvation apart from the words of God. A man will certainly sense his need of salvation by the testimony of nature; by the witness of the Spirit of God in his heart and by the pricking of his own conscience.
But he is only saved by believing in the word of God.
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Romans 10:17)
Salvation is based upon confidence and belief in what God has written; not in the clever arguments or persuasions of men.
Secular records of biblical events do not constitute truth. One may either believe or reject them.
But one does not have that same right-of-rejection with God’s words. He is accountable for how he handles those words. Every human being is accountable to believe in the absolute accuracy of God’s word about ALL that He has said. Even in the stuff we claim is indefensible.
Because, it will be those indefensible words which will judge us.
If my faith is based on anything else, it is not truly faith. It is just religion. Maybe it’s a very savvy, hip, intellectual and culturally-acceptable religion.
But that is all it is.
PS: I don’t wish evil for Andy. I hope he comes to his spiritual senses. I hope he repents of these statements and clears things up in a very open and clear manner. But he speaks these things very openly and very boldly.
Which demands believers to come to the defense of God’s word. In an equally bold response.
Eternal Approach 
November 1, 2018 at 9:49 am
Have you ever considered the possibility that resurrection, heaven, afterlife and God is a scam? GROG
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November 1, 2018 at 9:05 pm
Hi Grog,
Thanks for reading and thanks for your comment.
Everyone faces the possibility that these things are not true. We live in a world that has basically rejected all these things. Even though many religions still talk about them, they don’t look at them from a biblical perspective. Or use ritual, disciplines and good works in order to find God.
True faith in Christ is not something that exists in a vacuum. Every Christian faces the constant assault that was begun in Eden. The question of whether what God said was true or not. And the question of authority. The question of who is telling the truth?
But the core of the battle has more to do with our view of God than most anything else. It is a question of whether God is good or whether He is not? If He is not, then I would just as soon chuck the whole mess. And take my chances in the great unknown.
However, the truth is that we all have enough light given to us to know God if we will respond to it. That applies to the guy in the deepest jungle as well as the guy in the greatest cities of civilization. Both are given enough light. If we respond to what God has revealed to us, He will give us more so that we can know Him and His salvation. If we don’t, then we remain in darkness.
In the city, man is surrounded by the words of God easily available; but so are a million distractions and contradictions. In the jungle, a man may have never heard the words of God, but He has the witness of creation that reveals the invisible nature and power of God to man. So, who has the clearer view? Each must choose to follow the light he has already received so that the Lord can reveal His Son to him in fullness.
So, it is really just a choice. He that comes to God must believe that He is (that He exists) and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Doug
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November 2, 2018 at 9:42 am
Delusion persists because people believe that there is an eternal soul. It is a scam and of course it is really difficult to admit that once it is believed. GROG
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November 2, 2018 at 4:39 pm
Grog,
On what basis do you believe eternal life is a scam?
Doug
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November 3, 2018 at 12:13 pm
Common sense. GROG
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November 4, 2018 at 3:20 pm
Hi Grog,
The term, “common sense”, implies a universally understandable idea. Or at least something that is apparent and evident and obvious to everyone. Regardless of their final acceptance of that idea.
An example of an idea that is true across all cultures is the belief in God: whomever that God might be — the idea that there is a Creator and original Designer. That doesn’t mean that everyone will accept that idea. Just that most people across the globe have always believed this.
It is evident that we are surrounded by systems that are incredibly complex even at the genetic and molecular levels. These are obviously a product of design and continual management by some outside technician to make these systems work; to work not only within themselves but in unison and symbiosis with other systems.
A mechanical watch does not fly together as a result of millions of years of evolutionary chance. A series of tornadoes in an infinite junkyard of watch parts would not produce a watch. The rational, obvious conclusion is to believe that a watch has a designer. Just as we, along with the universe, are the result of a Creator / Designer.
Which is the first principle of “common sense”.
Doug
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November 13, 2018 at 10:17 am
Grog,
How do you explain your own existence? Again, we are surrounded with order, complexity and beauty beyond our understanding. Even science, in all its presumption, cannot explain it. How could we be so amazingly constructed without a purpose? Can we at least have a discussion from that basis? That we are more than just pieces of dust that move through a meaningless cosmos to live and die and disappear?
Doug
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November 13, 2018 at 3:36 pm
You are a greedy one aren’t you. You have life, but you want more. Live it and quite believing there is someone looking over your shoulder! We are just humans living in a world that our ancestors made for us, and we are just trying to get through it is the best way possible with what we have to work with. Existence? Existence just is, accept it and quite trying to make this whole thing about you and the other chosen ones. Existence ends when you die, believing that anything continues or exists after death is delusional, a wish to be special. It sounds like you don’t know much about science either. Religion is the scam of the supernatural. GROG
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November 14, 2018 at 4:45 pm
Grog,
Scientism is the worship of science. Or, more practically, when people place confidence in popular theory where it affects their views on spiritual matters. In other words, when science becomes God to a person. Not that they accept the concept of God; but that they are willing to risk their spiritual soul on the basis of popular scientific consensus.
It is a religious choice like all other choices. And it has the seductive appeal of making those who have faith in such “pure reason” look intellectual and wise. Which makes them feel like the “chosen ones”. Smarter, wiser, more intelligent, with more common sense.
What has science proven that justifies such confidence? Neither the creationist nor the evolutionist is able to definitively prove his theory. We are forced to leap out in faith based on a choice we make spiritually. God has caused us to make a choice. It is inescapable.
A faithful Christian does not set aside his mind to believe in the Bible. He tests it. And he probably does that more than most other people that claim to be more intelligent and scientifically literate. Because he knows that he will be ridiculed for his belief. By those who always claim they are better and kinder and more tolerant.
“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” (Romans 1:20)
Doug
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November 15, 2018 at 3:57 pm
I think you have all been scammed. Obviously the delusion of resurrection has clogged the brain. Dreamers in a world of wonder. GROG
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November 16, 2018 at 6:55 am
Grogalot,
I agree with the basic premise that the world is basically in delusion. But we disagree 180 degrees on what that delusion is.
Every man has a choice in what he believes. God gives every man free-will. One may choose life or one may choose death. The question is in what life and death really are. Some, with no more consciousness than that of an animal, see this world as the end all.
You say that this life is all there is. That is a choice you have made to believe that. It is a choice with consequences. All choices have consequences. If you are correct, you do what you want and you die and it’s over. No more consciousness. Fade to black.
If, however, you were made to experience a wonder and joy beyond your imagination to know God and His love for you for all eternity, then you will breathe your last upon this world and suffer that loss forever. Fully conscious, fully aware, in full regret and in pain without end.
God has done all he can do to show men the way of life. He suffered for the sins of all men so that they would not have to face God on their own merit. Which is to face the second death. A man on his own merit is without hope. So Christ becomes our perfect merit before God when we choose to believe that He has made full provision for us. Again, God has already made the way open. He already paid the price.
That is not the same as religion which says that man can work to please God. You hate religion; so do I. Even if that religion talks about Jesus or Christianity, if it is not based on the total sufficiency of Christ, it is a false religion. If it is not based on the full love of God freely given to those who will accept Him.
The free gift, of course, is based on a man’s willingness to see his need. If a man will not choose to see his sin, and to come to God for His forgiveness, then he has been blinded by “the god of this world” and has rejected the infinite mercy of God.
And for what?
All gambled away for the delusion of a few years here on this planet. Hopefully in good health. Hopefully with enough money to not struggle. Hopefully without pains, the loss of loved ones, or regrets or a million other things that can cause grief. Hopefully with a full life versus a heart attack that may come in the blink of an eye.
No need to go to Vegas. There is no greater and more foolish gamble than this being “all there is”.
Doug
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November 13, 2018 at 9:21 am
Religion is a scam based on the delusion of resurrection. It is common sense that everything dies, it is the imaginings of the religious that a spirit continues to exist after death. For the monotheists the “eternal spirit” gets a resurrected mortal body and memory, and exists for eternity. Can’t get much more delusional than that! GROG
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November 16, 2018 at 2:29 pm
You asked earlier why I believe that eternal life is a scam. My religious background is Mormon, so make allowances.
I have a relative, same age, total Mormon. I ask him a question about resurrection in a particular situation.
Our great uncle and his wife, devout Mormons, had a child late in life who was totally disabled and was still a child when she died some 20 years later. She had no experiences of mortal life and never could even walk, so I asked, “What about Sylvia? What will her resurrection be?” The reply: “She will be born again as a healthy baby girl and her parents will be able raise her in heaven.” This guy believes he will be a God someday!
Sorry for not being more direct, but there are so many factors in why people like you do believe. The stories and myths of gods and other worlds have always been with us. We are humans, and all brains are programmed to survive. Every creature struggles to survive, but we know we die.
And, we can be fooled and sometimes willingly. Believing in a spirit (supernatural) and a spirit world (supernatural) is normal human behavior. Ancestor worship.
I don’t know what your version of afterlife might be, but I find it so improbable that when a human dies that it can ever be reassembled. Believers seem primarily concerned with the purpose of life, but what is the purpose of resurrection? It must be that is gives some delight to imagine that you will never die. It is a belief of being special. It is a belief that Jesus’ physical resurrection is true and that if you are faithful you can be resurrected in glory too. So if resurrection is a delusion, God is too.
The greatest miracle, if you like miracles, is that we are here at all. Life is the miracle, not death and a dreamed of resurrection.
Who are you as a resurrectee? The physical resurrection belief of the Mormons is just another day in paradise, but in perfect health, top shape, you never have to go to the bathroom.
What would the world be today if the Jewish reform cult of the Savior had not survived? GROG
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November 18, 2018 at 5:55 pm
Hey Grogalot,
I have studied Mormonism to some degree. One book I read was by a couple that left Mormonism to trust Christ as their
Savior according to the Bible alone. The book was called, The Mormon Experience. It was very interesting.
Mormonism seems more like science fiction than a religious belief, though. But I will say that they tend to be very moral people. And have very close family ties. But you would know more about the reality of that than I.
A person comes to Christ because they are confronted by their need. And God uses difficult circumstances to bring people to Himself. Because men tend to ignore Christ if their lives are hunky dory.
So, what do you say to a person who is in pain? Or who is in poverty? Or in a circumstance that offers no way out of misery? In that case, this life has no beauty or miracle as you have discussed. They are left to suffer their remaining days here until they die. And all for what? Most people in this world do not have the luxury of a good life as you seem to indicate.
The “life here is all there is” idea only works for those who are doing well. As long as they are doing well.
And you continue to mention the “programming” that people have to survive. Where does that come from? You mention the deception that apparently only a few people really seem to avoid. How do you know that YOU are not the one deceived? Seems like you think you are one of the chosen ones? What is it that makes YOU different? What makes YOU special?
Sorry, had to use all caps on those words to highlight them. Didn’t mean to shout.
Doug
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November 20, 2018 at 7:06 pm
What i said was “the brain is programmed to survive.” Which fulfills our basic purpose , which is to survive; to continue the species. I don’t feel that I am special at all, except for the fact that I am alive, here and now, and experiencing this once in a lifetime journey through space and time. The miracle is that we are here at all. It is the delusional who have been scammed into believing they have two lives. GROG
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November 22, 2018 at 9:45 am
Happy Thanksgiving, Grogalot!
Programming is the work of a Programmer. A “program” does not randomly exist anymore than a symphony flies together in the midst of a windstorm.
I was just thinking last night about the people in my life that I long to see again. My Mom, my Dad, my Brother, friends, etc. This life is full of pain and suffering for many people. If there were no hope for something else, then this is a waste. Yes, I am thankful for the miracle of God’s creation and the life He has given me. And attempt to live this life to the fullest it can be lived. But I am not under pressure to be sure that I do all that I want to do here. And that is a tremendous blessing in itself.
Such a hopeless philosophy would lead me more toward hedonism and other destructive tendencies than anything good. Because I would be desperate to get all their is to get now. Knowing that nothing would follow. All would be over. All chances to do all that is in my soul unfulfilled.
That is one of the great gnawing questions that man must answer. How do I fill all this longing that is within me if this is all there is? What if I am not fulfilled? What if I miss out on something? And where did all these ideas truly come from? A desire to know God? A deep belief that I was created for something far greater than this bowl of dust? I don’t think of those “ancestors” enough for their programming to make any difference to me. This goes far deeper.
Doug
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November 25, 2018 at 5:08 pm
Maybe a better word is instinct. That doesn’t seem to work if we are talking about a tree, but every fertilized seed, plant or animal, by it’s internal biology gives birth to a new baby. That’s what I mean by programmed and we are where we are due to adapting and evolving, and reproducing. And there is only one life for each plant or creature. Resurrection is a delusion and those who believe in an eternal soul have been fooled. How life goes is a matter of luck for each of us. If you have good genes and educated parents, you’re lucky. Life is just a roll of the bones. GROG
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November 25, 2018 at 7:55 pm
Grog,
Again, even the idea of a survival instinct, let alone the complexity and even the whole idea of self realization, is beyond any concept of chance. It makes no sense whatsoever to believe that all this is random. None. One has to be in an unbelievable state of denial to think there is no Creator. It is one thing to hate religion and to hate hypocrisy and a thousand other things man believes. But all that we clearly see of our own amazing bodies and nature around us is screaming at us of this truth of God’s design and plan.
Doug
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November 26, 2018 at 8:10 am
Doug, you are just fooling yourself. Believing that the earth, life, and the universe were created just so you could go to heaven to be with your creator is the height of arrogance and wish thinking. GROG
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November 29, 2018 at 10:44 pm
Grog,
You keep repeating the same statements without answering my basic questions about the obvious evidence of design that is all around us. Just screaming at us to see it. So, I am trying to understand why this is so critical to you. Are you trying to keep me from wasting my life on God? Just as a friend that is trying to help me?
Because, if God does not exist, I will die and there is no regret. Just lights out. Same for everyone. No losers anywhere. Just people without a purpose, without a point, without hope that are gone forever. In the end, then, nothing really matters. Not even doing good stuff for others. In fact, you are wasting your time that could be doing more exciting stuff since the final clock is ticking for you.
The atheist has always struck me as kind of delusional. It is like someone running around screaming about people who believe in Santa Claus. What is the downside? Coals or switches in my stocking? Although there is the Krampus tradition the Germans push. Don’t want that. Seems pointless to waste your time trying to talk people out of believing in Santa Claus. Nobody really gets offended when people talk about Santa Claus.
But God is different. There is a serious issue there. If God is really there, and He has actually communicated with people what He wants them to do. And since He has made it crystal clear in nature, in the conscience, by His Spirit speaking to men and by the written word, then men will have to stand before Him and tell Him why they arrogantly denied Him. Why they rejected Him. Then there is a price to pay.
And the Atheist or the Agnostic or anyone else who rejects Him just can’t stand to hear that. They just want all the Christians to shut up. Granted, some of them SHOULD shut up. But facing God without the cleansing and forgiveness that Christ offers is something no one wants to hear about. Because that person chooses to stand on his OWN merit. Which God has already clearly rejected.
So I really don’t think you are as altruistic about all this as you are pretending to be. Maybe you just want me to be quiet?
Doug
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December 1, 2018 at 2:40 pm
Doug, this is from your last reply:
“Grog,
You keep repeating the same statements without answering my basic questions about the obvious evidence of design that is all around us. Just screaming at us to see it. So, I am trying to understand why this is so critical to you.”
Ah, so you think that I am deluded because I believe that there isn’t a God, and that humans are not the reason for creation, because to you the perfection of creation itself is evidence that it was designed by God.
You believe the design of nature is so wonderful and perfect, that this is evidence of a Creator-God?
You and I both feel that we are special, but for different reasons.
This is how I think you feel that you are special. You feel blessed. You believe God loves you. You believe that God is always looking over you. You believe that there is evil in the world. You believe that God will cause the world to end in a final battle between good (God/Jesus) and evil (Satan/Lucifer), who by the way was/is a child of God! You believe you will be saved because Christ died for your sins and was resurrected. You believe that you also will be resurrected in an immortal form with an eternal soul, to spend the rest of eternity in Heaven. With Dad, I might add.
What have I left out or gotten wrong?
For me, everything is natural. We are the product of generations of ancestors who didn’t know how special they were. Each one of us is special because we are here, experiencing the only life we will ever have.
But you want purpose. There is no purpose to life other than what you make it. Life is a crap shoot and if you are lucky, life can be wonderful.
It really is too bad for humanity that the scam of an afterlife ever took hold. We so want so much for someone to love us, God fills the bill.
GROG
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December 3, 2018 at 4:24 pm
Grog, This will be my last response to this stream of comments.
It is evident to me that you are in clear denial of what the Lord has placed so clearly before all men. That He is there, that He has designed all things, and that He has communicated who He is by His word, and by His Spirit speaking to every man within his conscience.
We all have a choice. We follow the light He has given us or we don’t. It is not a question of intelligence or education; it is a question of believing what God has revealed. And making a choice to know Him. If we refuse the light, we remain in darkness.
You have obviously chosen not to know Him as your comments and your blog clearly explain. You will not even acknowledge His existence. I regret that I am not clever enough to discuss these matters with you when you refuse to at least acknowledge that man is a product of a designer’s hand. That is like denying that we breathe oxygen. You are choosing to ignore this obvious truth.
I do care about you. I care about what you believe. And I care about where you will end up from an eternal perspective. But I only care because the Lord Himself cares about you infinitely more. Yet you do not seem to care. Perhaps, that will change for you in time; if you have the time..
Please, feel free to continue sending comments. If they will add anything new to site, I will be happy to post them. But I have a duty to the Lord and to those who look to Him and His word for hope, to remain focused on Him and the message of His word.
In His Grace,
Doug
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December 3, 2018 at 4:26 pm
Delusion abounds. GROG
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